Bernstein??
I dont’ know what this is, although I take from the context that it is
a high protein diet. I can’t go on a high protein diet as I don’t eat
meat, except a little fish. When I was younger (and thinner) I didn’t
eat any animal by-products, although now I eat some dairy products. I
was a vegan from the time I was about 7 or 8 until I was 29. I am 110%
convinced that had I never taken up any animal products, I would
never have gained a bunch of weight, nor become diabetic. My parents
say I eschewed any animal products (except cheese) from the time I was
about 3 and found out that animal products came from relatives of
dogs, cats and zoo animals. I cannot stand the thought that something
dies so I can eat it, and only eat fish because I’m convinced that
they lack sensience. (However you spell it).
In answer to the questions regarding my blood sugar — Often in the
morning when I wake up, it’s about 120 - 140, which doesn’t seem to
get lower no matter what I do. In general, it drops after I’m up and
moving about an hour to about 90 - 100, stays there except after I eat
when it goes up to 140 - 180. Except for the week I was diagnosed,
I’ve never had levels about 180. (Lucky, I know).
Originally, I was put on metformin, but couldn’t tolerate the GI
effects. I ended up in a drug study comparing the affects of Actos vs
Avandia on cardiac problems in diabetics, and switched to Actos, which
I’ve been on ever since.
One thing I learned along the way was to take bg on an empty stomach,
eat 100 grams of something, waith 90 minutes and then test again –
then keep a record of what spikes you and what doesn’t. WHATEVER I eat
(even when I’m bad) is never a pure high glycemic carb — only carbs
with either protein and/or fat, which seems to keep me from spiking.
Also, I try to never eat more than 600 calories at a time.
In answer to the question — so how did you get fat? Well, I honestly
had a job so bad that I would work for about an hour, eat for about
half an hour, work for about an hour, eat, etc. 18 months — 50 pounds
(round numbrs) which is on top of the 30 I’d been carrying after
having lost about 20. SO — I want to lose about 80 pounds.
Fundamentally, I eat when I am sad, or bored, or lonely; conditions
which all make me hungry — as if there is a huge space where
SOMETHING should be, and while I don’t know what that "something" is,
Clay’s Bakery usually has a good substitute.
In all honesty, — my numbers could be worse now for the blood sugar
as I haven’t tested in about 2 months. But I ***DID*** order a new
meter and strips yesterday, so they should be here this week.
So that’s my story.
September 23rd, 2004 at 12:40 am
Hi Jessica,
Different strokes, different folks - the trend I took toward a vegetarian diet
almost killed me. I find it to be an extremely unhealthy way to live and vegan
moreso. If it works for you, then that is great, however, low-carbing is very
difficult for a vegetarian and extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a
vegan. I wish you well in finding a way out of the diabetic maze on a
low-protein diet.
My DH was raised religious vegetarian (7th Day Adventist) and his mother was a
carb addict - stuffed him full of sugars and starches and turned him from a
skinny little kid into a butterball turkey. I was a very healthy farm kid
(omnivore, primarily carnivore) and very healthy until the insane low-fat/heavy
veggie and grain diet was pushed on me (and like an idiot, I listened) by a well
meaning doctor who - from my perspective - committed malpractice by intimidating
a hypoglycemic into doing something that was destined to do irrep airabledamage.
As to sentience issues - since from my perspective all life has value and a form
In fact, those horseflies, gnat, skeeters, and
of sentience - the carrot I eat has as much value as a chicken or a cow.
Growing up on a farm I know that life feeds upon life - the chicken eats the
bug, I eat the chicken, etc. I suppose that having seen the carnage on farms
necessary to raise grains and vegetation that I have no issues with eating
whatever does not eat me.
eveything else that used to dine on my sweaty little arms and legs when I was
out working in the fields as a kid ate enough of me that I have a healthy
recognition of the fact life lives on life.
Historically, we were not obese as humans until we started depending upon grains
and other crops. When we were hunter/gatherers we were lean, mean protein
machines - and they didn’t work as long nor as hard as we do today!
Metabolically, the issue is the combination of fat and sugar. As a diabetic the
problem is carbs - fats only help to keep the BG elevated higher/longer. You
might want to meander through the Eades book "Protein Power" sometime to get a
take on the metabolic processes and see if you can find something that will work
for you and still allow you to be vegetarian. There are also low carb
vegetarian groups on the web, but I don’t think one can be low-carb and vegan
simultaneously.
A person on a low-protein diet (I have friends with kidney problems who live on
tiny amounts of low protein food and just enough protein to keep from developing
protein deficiency) by definition eats a pretty high carb diet. The more carbs
the higher the BG the more meds, etc. However, if you can manage to lose down
to a normal weight and eat small amounts of food and limit your carb intake to
what you can handle on the meter so you don’t have high BG then you’ll be fine.
We all have to find something that works for us. Your path will simply be a lot
more difficult than mine, ’tis all.
According to Bernstein, who is the diabetic guru I follow, 83 is a normal BG. I
like to keep mine as close to that as possible. It appears that using Byetta
and Fortamet may just get me there. My bg was 89 2 hours post-prandial this
morning. I forgot to take it when getting up. I have been unhappy with the
morning numbers - about the 120’s - and I need to shave about 30 points off
that.
Many folks get a dawn effect (I do) which is why I am experimenting with
fortamet. 180 - to me - is extremely high. I was panicking when I was in the
300 range, but 180 is something that would have me testing every 2 hours and
slashing carbs and calories to the bone. I believe that Bernstein is right and
that spikes are dangerous to us and I control for them as much as I can.
I had a dickens of a time with metformin at first. I found out I was allergic
to the coating on the time released metformin. I can tolerate the regular
metformin and also the fortamet. I used to take glipizide - hated every moment
of it since it is associated with heart problems. Neither DH nor I can take
Actos or Avandia - it causes dangerous side effects in both of us - profound
swelling which can lead to CHF. Dan now is controlled with Rhumannia 16
(Chinese herbs) and byetta and is doing very, very well - much less trouble than
I have because he does not have hyperinsulinism.
I don’t think I asked how you got so fat. I know how I got fat - eating too
much of a non-protein nature. I cannot eat high carb foods like grains,
starches, etc. I have to maintain on protein and fat with almost no carbs
unless I want to have BG’s so high I end up losing my vision or have other
serious side effects.
I only eat about 800-1000 calories a day now, so I am finally losing weight -
and none of it is carby material. Eating 600 calories at a time is no longer a
part of my lifestyle, nor will it be again. It has meant huge lifestyle changes
that have simply become a way of life.
If you are a compulsive overeater due to stress you may find that EFT is very
helpful (or NLP). You may find that byetta helps a great deal by making you
feel full, but it will not stop the desire to fill the empty space emotionally -
that you have to take care of through other means.
I used to eat not from boredom, but from a driving hunger from the
hyperinsulinism I suffer from. I was a hypoglycemic (dxed) from age 18 and had
a doctor who saved my life by putting me on a high protein, low-carb diet. Had
I listened to him and not gotten shanghaied by the low-fat guy in Alaska I’d
still weight 110 pounds and wear a size 8. The more carbs I eat the more
hyperinsulemic I get, the hungrier I get, round and round like a merry-go-round
out of control. But - the fact is that like you I did something that did not
work for me in terms of my health and I’m here at 239 pounds instead of 110.
BUT, I’m down 36 pounds from where I started and I keep chipping away at it a
pound at a time.
You might want to take a look at the low-carb vegetarian sites to see if they
can help you with a low carb diet. I don’t believe you will find any low-carb
vegan sites on the net.
Okay, I’m going to stop flapping my lips and get back to studying. You have a
great day now, y’hear!?
Best of luck to you!
Marsha
September 23rd, 2004 at 6:26 pm
Rebecca,
A couple of years ago I followed The Zone for a while and had the best blood
sugars I have ever had since becoming a diabetic. It’s difficult to do,
though, if you don’t eat eggs and dairy, you pretty much have to eat a whole
bunch of soy instead.
Debbie
P.S. I am grateful to Bernstein for teaching me that you can reuse lancets,
though. Nobody had ever told me that before, now my one expensive package
of lancet drums should last me more than a year!
_____
I dont’ know what this is, although I take from the context that it is a
high protein diet.
September 23rd, 2004 at 9:41 pm
Thanks Debbie!
And Marsha — I wasn’t trying to start an argument with you, I really
wasn’t. In "carbs" are also broccoli, cauliflower, mushrooms,
tomatoes, etc — not just starch.
I’m with Debbie — I can’t stand the pain thing. I know I’m a
hypocrite because I do drink milk, and eat canned tuna — although
most of my protein comes from soy. I’m also a hypocrite because I feed
beef to my dog who is a carnivore. And I feel bad about eating
by-products because of the treatment the animals get while producing
those by-products.
But I agree Debbie — vegan is the way to go, and I hope to get back
to it.
How do you recycle lancets? Do you just dunk them in alcohol?
I have a few boxes laying around I picked up over time while
travelling for work ("oops! out — new box")and I just bought strips
and a meter on ebay — $37.17 for 100 strips, and $5.99 for the meter.
September 24th, 2004 at 6:45 am
Hi Debbie,
No, Bernstein is not for everyone - in fact, I’m sure he has a moderately small
following because it takes a great deal of discipline to use his method.
And I’m sure that growing up on a farm had a lot to do with how I view the world
of food. (smile) And I do believe that plants are far more aware than most
people even want to consider and therefore I have as much respect for the life
of a plant as I do anything else, hence my comment about the carrot.
Bernstein need not be high fat, it is a personal thing, but it is a moderate fat
diet. It keeps me healthy, whereas if I was a vegetarian or vegan I’d either be
terribly ill or dead. Low-fat, high-carb, low-protein eating put over 100
pounds on me in a year and ended up making me diabetic. It is decidedly a very
dangerous thing for me and others like me.
It is a good thing that we don’t all eat the same things, though, or there would
We’d all be fighting over that last stalk of celery or
not be enough.
something.
As to fish, anyone who ever had an "Oscar" in the tank knows that they know who
I
you are and that you are the person with the meal worms. Ditto Bettas.
like fish - in the tank, on the plate…what can I say, I’m an equal opportunity
consumer.
Like you, I’m thankful to Berstein for the information on reusing lancettes and
how to take a painless BG reading.
I have read books on curing diabetes through eating grains and stuff - I’ve just
never known anyone who actually prospered using such a plan. I’ve actually
tried one a long time ago - it bombed for me. Totally. I’ve known a lot of
people who prosper from low-carb, though.
Cheers!
Marsha
September 24th, 2004 at 11:03 am
I didn’t realize a spirited discussion was an argument.
Realize, I’m a law
student. Feel free to thunk my upside the head if I get too spirited. I eat
broccoli, cauliflower, mushrooms, asparagus - not tomatoes, though. I actually
eat more vegetables than many vegetarians in terms of non-grain vegetables.
The dog needs the protein - people who try to make dogs and cats vegetarians end
up killing them from malnutrition. I have a friend in the Animal Rights
Assocation at law school who is a vegan but feeds her cat raw chicken and other
raw meats that are biologically appropriate for her. Don’t feel bad about
caring for your pet, please. There is no such thing as no harm in this world,
only greater and lesser forms of harm.
At the same time, I don’t use products that use animal testing and I don’t use
products that use animals for development (like certain hormones).
Be well!
Marsha
September 24th, 2004 at 8:14 pm
_____
Nope, you just reuse them. Over and over until they get dull enough to hurt
then you start a new one. I advance my Multiclix lancet drum about once
every two weeks, so with six lancets per drum, one drum will last about
three months. I believe Bernstein uses his longer than that, but I don’t
like pain. He recommends against reusing insulin needles, but not for
sanitation reasons, something about the insulin/needle reaction — I forget
the particulars (polymerization comes to mind but I wouldn’t swear to that).
He doesn’t address Byetta (or Byetta needles) at all, at least in the part
of the book I actually read.
Debbie
September 24th, 2004 at 11:46 pm
Meativore here.
_____
I’m with Debbie — I can’t stand the pain thing. I know I’m a hypocrite
because I do drink milk, and eat canned tuna — although
most of my protein comes from soy. I’m also a hypocrite because I feed beef
to my dog who is a carnivore. And I feel bad about eating
by-products because of the treatment the animals get while producing those
September 25th, 2004 at 8:22 am
I had an Oscar in high school that had more personality than most of my
friends.never had a fish that would actually play games with you.
_____
As to fish, anyone who ever had an "Oscar" in the tank knows that they know
I like fish - in the tank, on the plate…what can I say, I’m an equal
who you are and that you are the person with the meal worms. Ditto Bettas.
September 25th, 2004 at 1:26 pm
Actually, dogs can be vegetarian — they’re omnivores like we are and can do
without meat. I actually know several vegan dogs who are very healthy at
normally advanced ages for dogs. (9, 10, 15, a couple of younger dogs, and
one dog whose age is unknown but probably 10-ish). Cats, though, are true
carnivores and can’t thrive on a veggie diet. (There ARE ways to do it but
very involved and expensive and easy to mess up.)
That said, I do feed my dog and cat meat-based food because I’m lazy and
barely cook for myself, let alone my pets. I compromise and buy the
highest-quality, no-byproducts stuff I can find, and the manufacturer
(Newman’s Own) donates it’s profits to pro-animal charities. I can live
with that.
I’m actually less opposed to eating meat and more opposed to the treatment
of the animals while they’re alive and the manner of their killing. I live
in Iowa and have seen first-hand the conditions that many factory-farmed
animals live in. I won’t be a part of that if I can possibly help it.
Dairy and egg production can be just as bad, if not worse than livestock
grown for meat.
I’m also a knitter and am trying to wean myself from using wool to knit
with.
Debbie
_____
The dog needs the protein - people who try to make dogs and cats
vegetarians end up killing them from malnutrition.
September 25th, 2004 at 5:09 pm
yah, Carl, meativor here. Must be being a "Leo" - all big kitty here. (roar)
- Marhs
September 25th, 2004 at 8:00 pm
I have a friend in the Animal Rights Assocation at law school who is a vegan
but feeds her cat raw chicken and other raw meats that are biologically
appropriate for her.
*********************************************************
Can a cat get salmonella from eating raw chicken like people can? I just
wondered because I have 10 cats. Mine eat dry and canned cat food. Janet
September 26th, 2004 at 1:33 am
Scorpio, Baby, Textbook Scorpio.
_____
yah, Carl, meativor here. Must be being a "Leo" - all big kitty here.
(roar)
September 26th, 2004 at 8:11 am
there are lots of high protien foods out there…tofu..fish, eggs.peanut butter,
nuts, fish…
In answer to the questions regarding my blood sugar — Often in the
morning when I wake up, it’s about 120 - 140, which doesn’t seem to
get lower no matter what I do. In general, it drops after I’m up and
moving about an hour to about 90 - 100, stays there except after I eat
when it goes up to 140 - 180. Except for the week I was diagnosed,
I’ve never had levels about 180. (Lucky, I know).
Originally, I was put on metformin, but couldn’t tolerate the GI
effects. I ended up in a drug study comparing the affects of Actos vs
Avandia on cardiac problems in diabetics, and switched to Actos, which
I’ve been on ever since.
One thing I learned along the way was to take bg on an empty stomach,
eat 100 grams of something, waith 90 minutes and then test again –
then keep a record of what spikes you and what doesn’t. WHATEVER I eat
(even when I’m bad) is never a pure high glycemic carb — only carbs
with either protein and/or fat, which seems to keep me from spiking.
Also, I try to never eat more than 600 calories at a time.
In answer to the question — so how did you get fat? Well, I honestly
had a job so bad that I would work for about an hour, eat for about
half an hour, work for about an hour, eat, etc. 18 months — 50 pounds
(round numbrs) which is on top of the 30 I’d been carrying after
having lost about 20. SO — I want to lose about 80 pounds.
Fundamentally, I eat when I am sad, or bored, or lonely; conditions
which all make me hungry — as if there is a huge space where
SOMETHING should be, and while I don’t know what that "something" is,
Clay’s Bakery usually has a good substitute.
In all honesty, — my numbers could be worse now for the blood sugar
as I haven’t tested in about 2 months. But I ***DID*** order a new
meter and strips yesterday, so they should be here this week.
So that’s my story.
Anything posted in this group is the opinion of the person who posted it.
SPONSORED LINKS
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———————————
September 26th, 2004 at 11:37 am
I call myself a meatatarian…. only because I am probably one of the pickiest
adults in the world. And, when I know a particular food is a no-no, and my
husband tries to get me to eat it, like corn, apples, watermelon, whatever, I
tell him that it’s not good for me, then turn around and have a little
chocolate. LOL
Trish
_____
I’m with Debbie — I can’t stand the pain thing. I know I’m a hypocrite
because I do drink milk, and eat canned tuna — although
most of my protein comes from soy. I’m also a hypocrite because I feed beef
to my dog who is a carnivore. And I feel bad about eating
by-products because of the treatment the animals get while producing those
by-products.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anything posted in this group is the opinion of the person who posted it.
SPONSORED LINKS
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Visit your group "Diabetes_And_Byetta" on the web.
———————————
Trish
Petsmart_Trainers_NorthAmerica
Owned by a MI Ferret
Husky-4-Life
Diabetes_and_Byetta
September 26th, 2004 at 3:55 pm
Check out this fish…..
(btw, surprised I got that tinyurl. LOL)
Trish
_____
As to fish, anyone who ever had an "Oscar" in the tank knows that they know
I like fish - in the tank, on the plate…what can I say, I’m an equal
who you are and that you are the person with the meal worms. Ditto Bettas.
opportunity consumer.
_____
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anything posted in this group is the opinion of the person who posted it.
SPONSORED LINKS
Pancreas Ada Insulin Diabetic Support groups Position
Visit your group "Diabetes_And_Byetta" on the web.
———————————
Trish
Petsmart_Trainers_NorthAmerica
Owned by a MI Ferret
Husky-4-Life
Diabetes_and_Byetta
September 26th, 2004 at 6:56 pm
Aha! One of those kind, are ya? Are ya the kind that stings or the phoenix
reborn ones? Actually, there are three modes of scors - phoenix, eagle, and
scorpion. It seems to be my misfortune to usually run into the kind that are
barbed, but I do know two of the phoenix types as well who are highly evolved
types.
Uh, does it show that I know a professional, highly published astrologer? And
And totally cluelss about low carb, I might add. I have
that she’s a scor?
to always bring my own food to her house when I visit. But I never grumble, she
might have a stinger hidden somewhere, ya know.
Marsha
Carl E. Moore
September 27th, 2004 at 3:32 am
Insofar as I know, cats (and dogs) are not victim to the same problems as we are
with salmonella because they historically hunted fowl and ate them raw.
Different digestive systems. Although, truth be told, we did the same thing a
gazillion years ago. I do think, however, that the salmonella has a lot to do
with how chickens are raised these days (overcrowded conditions). On the other
hand, given a choice, chickens prefer overcrowded conditions - go figure.
The thought on feeding raw chicken and other raw meats to cats is that they can
gnaw on the bones as they would in nature and it is better for them - at least
that’s the theory. Since my dogs always loved knuckle bones from the butcher and
loved the marrow (nutrient rich) I figure cats would feel the same way.
Marsha
September 27th, 2004 at 7:50 am
Didn’t work for me either - got a 404 page. - Marsha
September 27th, 2004 at 10:52 pm
omnivore here… but trying to quit.. iam trying to cut down on everything
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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———————————
September 28th, 2004 at 1:02 am
Omnivore is good. Gives a balance. How much more can you cut down? You are
already eating as little or less than I am. Now that you are not so ill from
the nausea it must be better for your body, if not your weight loss.
Marsha
September 28th, 2004 at 6:37 am
You may have to copy and paste into your browser
Anything posted in this group is the opinion of the person who posted it.
SPONSORED LINKS
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Visit your group "Diabetes_And_Byetta" on the web.
———————————
Trish
Petsmart_Trainers_NorthAmerica
Owned by a MI Ferret
Husky-4-Life
Diabetes_and_Byetta
September 28th, 2004 at 2:54 pm
Yeah you two should do a show on how little someone can eat!
–
A life making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a
life spent doing nothing at all. –George Bernard Shaw
September 28th, 2004 at 11:12 pm
You don’t want to feed dogs salmon in any form, though, as the parasites
that can infect the salmon, and other upstreaming fish, can be toxic to
them. Found out almost the hard way. But it’s not toxic to humans. I
love salmon and it helps increase my Omega 3s and keeps my blood glucose
at an appropriate level.