Doctors and their prescriptions…
Did I mention that when tested my DH’s vitamin D level was very deficient. That
was before he started taking 5000 IU a day. I told my doctor I wanted 50,000 IU
monthly. (My test got lost but ya darn well know I’m deficient too). Today I
picked up my script and he got confused and wrote for 50,000 IU a day for a
year. Before he’d flinched at 50,000 IU a month. 
I gave DH one and I took one today (depth charge!!!) and we’ll see how bad my D
levels are and what it will take to get me to "normal." I know John Dodson
takes 50,000 IU a day.
I hope that the D supplementation (which is supposed to help my insulin
resistance, from what I have read) does the trick. Since finding out all this
good information from John I have gotten my sister on D (she has bad, bad osteo)
and have found out it is good for many other things than diabetes.
Being spreaders of good news we now have my sister-in-law talking to her doctor
about byetta. Sadly, I don’t think she can reverse the blindness nor the severe
neuropathy (she can’t feel her feet at all) but maybe it will give her a better
quality of life and help prevent more foot ulcers and other complications.
We’ve got her asking for a vitamin D test too to see if it could help her -
which it probably can.
Marsha
August 24th, 2004 at 1:58 am
D is DANGEROUS stuff
you can overdose on it. "D" deficenncy is very rare. How did you come
up with the idea that you needed such a huge dose (or ANY dose for that
matter)
Marsha Graham wrote:
August 24th, 2004 at 10:47 am
Hi Marsha,
Does one need to have a script for the Vit D, or can it be purchased from a
August 24th, 2004 at 3:38 pm
Actually, Ted, D is not as dangerous as you think and you’ve missed the fact
that vitamin D deficiency is anything but rare anymore.
Hypervitaminosis, which I was also concerned about at first, is almost unheard
of except in cases of industrial accidents. I found (and wish I could find
again, unfortunately I gave the hard copy to my doctor) a large document from an
endo association regarding the use of a minimum of 5,000 IUa day and using
50,000 IU doses.
You can’t get enough vitamin d through milk & stuff, most people use sun
screens, which prevent vitamin d formation, and you can’t get it through glass
(like windows in cars and homes) - you have to actually be outside in the sun
for a period of time and not using sunscreen. Plus I found out that people 70+
have serious impairments to their vitamin d production systems.
Deficiency is not rare, it is at epidemic proportions in the U.S. In fact,
mothers who nurse and are deficient are starting to have children with rickets,
mostly in the south.
Most diabetics are vitamin D deficient. Please start googling diabetes vitamin
d and you’ll find all sorts of articles from NIH and Mayo and other places on
it.
Don’t feel bad about being uninformed - I was similarly clueless until John
Dodson clued me in, sending me a lot of information at my request (I admit, I
was worried about the D he was taking) - after which I started finding it on my
own and found out - JOHN WAS RIGHT!!! My doctor has since researched it as well
and agrees about vitamin D deficiency, PLUS my husband has tested positive for
it. Times change and information changes with them. (see a smattering of links
I got in a minute or so) - Marsha
Happy linking…
Marsha Graham wrote:
>
August 24th, 2004 at 7:56 pm
Hi Lanie,
For 50,000 IU one does need a script and I would get a confirming test first
before taking that amount.
However, everything I have found tells me that all Type II diabetics are vitamin
D deficient. John has a great deal of data - I have lost the links (his is hard
copy but I found all of them online) and this can easily be confirmed.
I have found documentation on how vitamin d deficiency is involved in osteo and
how treating elders with large amounts of d3 makes them less apt to fall, less
apt to break bones and may help reverse effects of osteoporosis - NOTE it is now
included in fosomax (the new formulation) and my sister’s doctor now has her on
fairly large doses along with foxamax and calcium.
Here is an article John sent me about a month ago or so…
RIVERSIDE, Calif. – www.ucr.edu – Scientists and nutrition experts at the
13th Vitamin D Workshop agree that about half of the elderly in North America
and two-thirds of the rest of the world are not getting enough vitamin D to
maintain healthy bone density, lower their risks for fractures and colorectal
cancer, improve walking speed in the elderly, and improve tooth attachment.
The conclusion of the 334 scientists from 23 countries at the meeting in
Victoria, British Columbia April 8-12, was that, although the problem of
insufficient vitamin D is widely recognized and reported, the usual advice to
eat foods that contain vitamin D does not solve the problem for most adults.
This “sunshine vitamin†is the one nutrient that foods alone cannot provide
enough of. Most of our dietary vitamin D is added to foods by manufacturers. The
workshop, organized by Anthony Norman, distinguished professor of biochemistry
and biomedical sciences at UCR, covers the latest advances in vitamin D research
over the past three years.
A wide variety of topics was covered at the meeting concerning the parent
vitamin D3 (an essential nutritional substance) and its steroid hormone daughter
product calcitriol (also referred to as hormone D). Calcitriol is now known to
be involved in the immune system, calcium and bone metabolism, regulation of
gene expression; it is linked to prevention and treatment of osteoporosis,
cancer, diabetes, and other ravages of aging, including tooth attachment, muscle
function and inadvertent falls which can result in bone fractures.
Dr. Robert Heaney, of Creighton University, Omaha, Neb. summarized studies,
which point out that all adults should have a much higher blood vitamin D
(measured as calcidiol) level, of approximately 75 nanomoles per liter, than
previously thought. Swiss scientist Dr Heike Bischoff-Ferrari concurred,
presenting the combined findings about vitamin D from several large U.S. health
databases.
The consensus of vitamin D nutritional experts present at the Vitamin D
Workshop is that current governmental guidelines in all countries with respect
to how much daily vitamin D is required simply to maintain bone health and
health in general are too low and do not reflect the many scientific advances
made in vitamin D and hormone D research over the past 10 years.
There was a general consensus that the blood concentration of vitamin D should
at the very least meet or hopefully exceed a minimum desirable serum
concentration of 50 nanomoles of vitamin D/liter (or 20 ng/ml). As reviewed in
talks at the Workshop by professors from the U.S.A., Canada, The Netherlands and
Switzerland, the standard of 50 nanomoles/liter is not achieved by 50 percent of
the North American elderly population and by two-thirds of the rest of the world
and the situation is frequently not much better in younger subjects.
Even with dietary supplements, the amounts of vitamin D in foods (except for
selected fatty fish products) and vitamin supplement products are too low to
offer much benefit to adults. As emphasized at the Workshop, vitamin D3
fortification of foods such as bread, milk, or orange juice or vitamin D3
supplementation in daily vitamin capsules has to be very significantly improved
and implemented.
Vitamin D3 is also known as the “sunshine vitamin†because it can be formed
in our skin by ultra violet light in sunshine. However, it was also a consensus
at the workshop that it is not advisable for individuals to prolong their
exposure to sunlight to produce the needed higher concentrations of vitamin D
because of the well documented effects of sunlight on skin aging and the
promotion of skin cancer. This was clearly summarized in a keynote lecture from
Professor Barbara Gilchrest, M.D., chair of dermatology at the Boston University
Medical School, who described that the very same UVB light or suntan radiation
is responsible for vitamin D production in the skin but also for photo ageing
and skin cancer.
Finally the experts’ opinion is that more clinical research is needed to
define the wide spectrum of the beneficial effects of vitamin D3 on global
health and to define the optimal safe levels of vitamin D3 intake. The present
upper level of vitamin D intake that is deemed to be safe (2000 International
Units/day) must be re-evaluated in light of much existing data acquired over the
past 15 years, to be elevated to a higher level, at least to facilitate urgently
needed additional clinical studies on the value of higher daily doses of vitamin
D3 to the maintenance of better overall health.
What is the Vitamin D Workshop?
The organization known as the Vitamin D Workshop was established in 1973. Since
then, 13 Workshops have been held, alternating every three years between Europe
and the USA. The primary mission of the Vitamin D Workshop is to conduct
scientific meetings on all topics related to vitamin D, but particularly those
in which active current research is being conducted. The term “vitamin D†is
used in the broadest fashion possible, and includes not only the parent vitamin
D itself and its precursors, but any and all metabolites and modified forms
(analogs) of vitamin D and its metabolites present in any biological system.
Attendance at the meetings is open to all scientists of the world who have an
interest in furthering our understanding of the properties and biological
purpose of vitamin D and related compounds. When feasible, the Vitamin D
Workshop endeavors to publish comprehensive reports of the scientific meeting in
Proceedings which will be widely available.
August 26th, 2004 at 9:51 am
Andrew Rotramel wrote:
AND, the FDA advises against supplements at all if possible, but
taking foods rich in D and sunshine/
August 26th, 2004 at 7:02 pm
South Carolina. Motorcycle. Bicycle. Convertible. Lawnmower. Pontoon.
Bald/buzzed head. I should be fine with my shoulder-mounted Vitamin D
collection panel.
Plus I usually do a protein shake or two a day with a cup of skim milk.
_____
Ted, I got tested for vitamin D a year or so ago and was found to be
deficient. Not all that hard to do with all the hiding from the sun we
folks do these days. I work inside all day and almost never get any sun
August 27th, 2004 at 6:20 pm
Ted, My Endo has me on 50,000 units of Vit D a day for one month and then on
50,000 twice a month. I have experienced no bad side affects in fact just the
opposite. I have researched this very carefully and there is mounting evidence
that Vit D deficiencies exist for most persons with diabetes. And as we get
older our skin does not absorb Vit D as well. Vit D is very helpful in many
areas including but not limited to balance, energy and other vital health
related
concerns. Older persons with higher Vit D levels do not have as many falls as
those with low levels, for example.
August 28th, 2004 at 12:32 am
I won’t argue that D deficiency may be greater than thought before,
however megavdoses, at 25 times the MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE DOSE are not a
good idea, and are not considered medicine.
Also, the FDA would argue that any use of supplements, except in rare
cases, and for short periods of time, are not good for you. Supplements
don’t supply the results that foods do.
Then there is the fact that "supplements" are not regulated under the
Pure Food and Drug Act. I can take ground up tobacco, put in in
capsules, label it 1,00 IU Vitamin D caps, and sell it - legally..
People do not realize that. If you buy celery, it needs an accurate
label or, of in bulk, an equivalent available to shoppers. But
vitamins, and I can sell you ANYTHING.
IF you catch me (and who tests everything you buy) you might be able to
sue me for your money back in local court under common-law
misrepresentation, but if I am in Hainan, and you are in Georgia - god
luck on getting service.
Andrew Rotramel wrote:
August 28th, 2004 at 9:08 am
Andrew Rotramel wrote:
September 1st, 2004 at 6:42 pm
Ted, Did you get my post? I sent it last night. Vit D in the 50,000 unit
capsule is only available by prescription. It is not for everyone. You have to
be
tested and then again tested in one month. I was unaware that the FDA
recommended against using supplements. I am taking a one a day Multi- Vitamin
supplement, Cinnamon in capsule form, 5000 mg of Fish Oil, liquid L’Arginne, 1
oz.
(which is really effective in keeping the vascular system in excellent shape),
Chromin-Picolate (sp).
I am on 10mcg of Byetta. June will be my one year anniversary on Byetta. I
have lost 80 lb and have only 12 lb to go to my BWI suggested weight. All my lab
tests are normal. I am also taking Fortament ER 1000 mg twice a day,
September 2nd, 2004 at 5:59 am
John,
The FDA is a paranoid organization. They probably need to be considering their
approval of things like Fen-Phen and many more damaging drugs and drug combos.
However, they are clueless regarding supplements. They would probably ban
1-a-day vitamins if they could, but Orrin Hatch passed legislation stopping them
from infringing on the rights of Americans to use herbs. Sen. Hatch’s mother
uses herbs - so we can thank her for that. The FDA would also ban ALA if it
could and ALA is a major diabetes treatment in the EU, specificially Germany,
where they give far in excess of what we consider the upper limit of 1200 mg
daily and people are far healthier for it.
Ted seems to have a problem with all supplementation, although the reality is
that D is supplemented in foods (like milk) and that was what stopped rickets in
America - so the only way to really get it from food is from supplementation. I
can understand that, in a way, because I remember when I heard what you were
taking in terms of Vitamin D3 and I was concerned about you.
My personal take on it is that anyone who does not want to use supplements
should not do so, while the rest of us have the right to do with our bodies as
we wish in attempting to live healthier lives. After all, we let people use
alcohol (frequently to excess) and smoke tobacco and no one can claim that’s
good for ya.
It was not long ago I also felt leery of vitamin D, but learned from you and
from many other sources that there was a real issue here. As to taking 50,000
IU - despite the fact my doctor blew it and gave me a lifetime supply (and then
some) I am not going to take one a day unless he tells me to do so. I have
noticed that since I went on the 5000 IU a day my bg has been inching down. It
is more likely to be 115 all the time instead of going rollercoastering between
85 and 140. The 50,000 IU is oil based and is the same as taking 5,000 a day and
the doctor is fine with that considering my age, my diabetes and other health
issues.
I’m so delighted about your ongoing weight loss and BG control. You just make
my day!
Cheers!
Marsha
September 2nd, 2004 at 11:00 pm
For the record, I’m not the least bit against supplements of any kind in
moderation (debatable levels, of course). I take a WahMah Centrum Silver (no
iron) and a protein shake or two a day loaded with stuff (weight training).
_____
My personal take on it is that anyone who does not want to use supplements
should not do so, while the rest of us have the right to do with our bodies
as we wish in attempting to live healthier lives. After all, we let people
use alcohol (frequently to excess) and smoke tobacco and no one can claim
that’s good for ya.
September 3rd, 2004 at 11:18 am
No, vitamin D in milk is NOT A SUPPLEMENT
it is a food additive, and, as such,, is covered by the Pure Food and
Drug Act
The fact that Orin Hatch is bought and paid for by the Snake Oil
industry is simply an example of garden variety influence peddling.
He receives HUGE contributions from the supplement scammers, and does
their bidding. He opposed the ban on Ephedra, and he has opposed all
other attempts to get normal controls on the supplement scammers.
Controls that are on your lettuce!
Marsha Graham wrote:
September 3rd, 2004 at 4:11 pm
I would suggest the Ephedra thing may have been media-cised over a few
people hoafing down bottles of weight loss pills and then trying to play
football in summer heat. Consider Ephedra is still available at WahMah OTC
and I know guys that swear by the ECA Stack. I can’t do it myself, sends me
into JitterLand like crazy. I’m f’d up enough stone cold sober.
_____
He opposed the ban on Ephedra, and he has opposed all other attempts to get
September 3rd, 2004 at 7:54 pm
I can’t find any record of such an approval
Now, negotiating the FDA website can be a bit daunting, and I may have
just missed it, so please show me any evidence that there is an FDA
approved pill
I may note that "supplementation" simply means adding, but "Supplement"
means uncontrolled
Andrew Rotramel wrote:
September 4th, 2004 at 5:16 am
Ted,
Let us look at this rationally, shall we? If the FDA had not approved 50,000 IU
caps of D3 I would not be able to get them with a prescription, would I?
Good grief…
Marsha
September 4th, 2004 at 9:34 am
One man’s snake oil is another’s salvation. I say again, if you don’t like it,
don’t use it. - Marsha
The fact that Orin Hatch is bought and paid for by the Snake Oil
industry is simply an example of garden variety influence peddling.
September 4th, 2004 at 11:27 pm
Hehehe sounds like maybe I should go walking around with my Iguana after
all!
He needs the UVB from the sun. I need the D eh?
How absolutely funny. Now, can I figure out if a harness would help me hold
him. I might try to get him used to walking on a harness (special one btw)
but they say if they’re older to forget it.
Rebecca
–
Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without
hope and confidence.
– Helen Keller (1880-1968) American Writer
***************************************
September 5th, 2004 at 4:03 am
Petsmart! We sell them there, though it depends on how big he is where it may
be easier to get a dog harness. We don’t see enough people walking their
lizards. LOL
Trish
Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without
hope and confidence.
– Helen Keller (1880-1968) American Writer
***************************************
Trish
Owner and Moderator of Petsmart_Trainers_NorthAmerica
Member of:
Owned by a MI Ferret
Husky-4-Life
Diabetes-International
test’; " type=text/css>
September 5th, 2004 at 11:57 am
There used to be someone here in my town who walked her iguana (I think it
was an iguana, some kind of lizard at any rate) — we used to have a
fountain downtown that had a small pool attached and it would splash around
in the pool with the kids (*very* closely supervised). I suspect she
actually carried it most of the way, though. I haven’t seen them in a long
time, I suppose she must have moved.
Debbie
September 6th, 2004 at 2:24 am
from the University of Maryland Medical Center
website:
Vitamin D is included in many, if not most,
multivitamins. It can be found alone in
over-the-counter preparations in strengths from 50 IU
to 1,000 IU as softgel capsules, tablets, and liquid.
Higher-dose preparations are also available by
prescription. For those who have trouble digesting
fat, vitamin D injections are also available by
prescription.
How to Take It
I
September 6th, 2004 at 3:47 am
WARNING - I jusr lost my glasses. SO, for the next few hours, my
typing, usually extremely bad, will be much worse.
Sorry about that people who find typos painful should avoid reading my
posts!
No, you have an usubstantiated alegation. If it isn’t on the site, it
isn’t FDA approved
Typical dupliment scammer behavior
Andrew Rotramel wrote:
September 6th, 2004 at 8:05 am
Oh I agree, but you should know what you are taking, and people do not
realize that the term "supplement" means "can be fraudulent, and no one
will do anything"
Marsha Graham wrote:
September 6th, 2004 at 12:23 pm
Oh, it is a proven killer, but the Orrin Hatch Snake Oil defennders got
ot kept on the market for unsuspecting people, and permit Bitter Orange.
Carl Eugene Moore wrote:
September 6th, 2004 at 5:16 pm
They can be right rather quick in short bursts and the LOVE to swim.
_____
There used to be someone here in my town who walked her iguana (I think it
was an iguana, some kind of lizard at any rate) — we used to have a
fountain downtown that had a small pool attached and it would splash around
in the pool with the kids (*very* closely supervised). I suspect she
actually carried it most of the way, though. I haven’t seen them in a long
September 7th, 2004 at 1:17 am
You have lost me. If the FDA hasn’t approved them, and they put the
label "supplement" on them yhey can sell them to anyone they want to.
If they arn’t listed as approbed, they ARE NOT APPROVES
Marsha Graham wrote:
September 7th, 2004 at 6:21 am
Hi Carl,
As an asthmatic, ephedra in small doses at appropriate times is quite helpful to
me. I found out from Andrew Weil about using it and have always appreciated his
willingness to reach out and accept the fact that 99% of the medications we have
are based upon natural remedies from the plant and animal world. I no longer
need it because I rarely have an incident now that I stopped eating grains, plus
I have options using EFT and homeopathy (arsinicum album 200C for me).
As with all things, too much of a good thing is, well, too much. If we drink to
much water we can upset our electrolyte imbalance and make ourselves ill - or
kill ourselves, for that matter.
I don’t follow Weil that much anymore because he (to my mind) has a screw loose
about low carb dieting, but I still think that this Harvard educated doctor with
the broad mind and wide acceptance is a pioneer in many ways. His approach to
integrated medicine is really the only approach that is going to wok.
1000 IU a day is 30,000 IU a month, which is not far off the 50,000 IU I take
once a month.
Times, they are a changing…
Cheers!
Marsha
September 7th, 2004 at 10:39 am
Ted,
Stop. Breathe deeply. Listen to me. I have a prescription. All prescription
medications are approved by the FDA. I am sitting here reading off the
prescription bottle to you: Take 1 tablet by mouth…IC ERGOCALCIFEOL CAP 50000
IU). The doctor got his brand out of the PDR.
Hence, what I am taking is a prescription. It is approved by the FDA. It was
prescribed by a doctor.
However, there are also non-presciption items - like 1-a-day vitamins with 400
IU or other types with up to 5,000 IU a day of D3.
We will have to agree to disagree regarding whether I should have the right to
purchase ALA, Hoodia, or anything else I feel is appropriate. Dr. Bernstein
recommends Hoodia and ALA. So, there we have it, I’m into alternative medicine
and nothing is going to change that.
So, how about them Mets?
Marsha
September 7th, 2004 at 7:04 pm
OK, well, I’m tiring of this discussion anyways, what say we get back on
topic.
_____
Oh, it is a proven killer, but the Orrin Hatch Snake Oil defennders got
ot kept on the market for unsuspecting people, and permit Bitter Orange.
Carl Eugene Moore wrote:
September 8th, 2004 at 1:41 am
if you look on the FDA site under the electronic
orange book and search for calcitriol under the
prescription drugs you will find 16 entries for
prescription vitamin D preparations
September 8th, 2004 at 4:34 pm
HAH! I’m familiar!
_____
my iguana’s attitude can be summed up in one line…I
HATE EVERYBODY. ESPECIALLY YOU
> They can be right rather quick in short bursts and
> the LOVE to swim.
September 11th, 2004 at 6:48 pm
Marcus Aurelius
September 11th, 2004 at 11:06 pm
Another person, that actually wrote a book I’d read, is Dr DC Jarvis’ Folk
Medicine. He’s not alive anymore but the site is fascinating.
I was looking up Cayenne and found the fact that so many people have
declared it useful for neuropathy! I was taking it for pain but had not
connected that my arms felt much better ( I have nerve problems that they’ve
not figure out whether it is due to repetitive motion or what. )
One must never look for happiness: one meets it by the way.
– Isabelle Eberhardt
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