Two in the family
Today I started my DH on 5 mcg Byetta. He got almost no response from Actos and
when he stopped it for several days his BG actually went DOWN. Obviously it
wansot helping. He was previously taken off Metformin because of creatinine
levels. He’s not about to take glucotrol. That left Byetta - a much better
option anyway, IMO.
He is understandably needle shy, but tolerated the injeciton well - my biggest
problem was his flinching away from the needle the first time. I am working
with him to teach him the feel/clicks of the pen so that he can do it himself
and feel that he is in more control of it. Although Byetta says that blind
diabetics should not use it without supervision, I can tell from the way the pen
operates that he can learn to use it on his own through learning which way to
turn, what the operation feels like, and if nothing else, how to use the
plunger.
He had no upset tummy. No nausea. His BG is nicely down to 105 1 hr after a
light dinner. Very good response. I suspect he will have no problems at all
tolerating it. Sure hope so.
Fortunately for him, he is a lot closer to his goal weight than I am and he is
doing better job than I of losing weight. I suspect his Byetta experience will
be a lot shorter than mine.
Cheers!
Marsha
April 30th, 2004 at 1:27 pm
excellent but why will his spit experience be shorter than yours?
jodi
He had no upset tummy. No nausea. His BG is nicely down to 105 1 hr after
a light dinner. Very good response. I suspect he will have no problems at
all tolerating it. Sure hope so.
Fortunately for him, he is a lot closer to his goal weight than I am and he
is doing better job than I of losing weight. I suspect his Byetta
experience will be a lot shorter than mine.
Cheers!
Marsha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
May 2nd, 2004 at 5:31 pm
Because he has so much less weight to lose than I do. I have about 130 pounds
to lose. He has about 70 pounds to lose. He will probably be off the spit
before he reaches goal weight as in his case it is a need for BG lowering
effects, not the weight loss effects he seeks.
Cheers!
Marsha
jodi
May 4th, 2004 at 7:40 am
You anticipate stopping the Byetta? I really had no idea that I
would ever be able to stop medication with diabetes. The best I
hoped for was to stop the progression of the negative effects of the
disease. I’ve never heard anyone talk about not having to take
Byetta any more at a certain point. (?)
Elaine(TN)
May 4th, 2004 at 1:11 pm
Do you know of anyone who’s gone off the spit because they’ve lost
enough weight and their bg has normalized? I’m thinking I’m on the spit
for life. <s>
May 4th, 2004 at 5:23 pm
My strong hope is that with weight loss I will be able to stop all diabetes
(and BP) medications. That may ultimately turn out to be impossible, but
for now I’m sure gonna try for it. Got a long way to go, though.
Debbie
May 4th, 2004 at 10:43 pm
Hey, Marsha, my Endo has 200 patients on the spit. He told me on Friday that
at least some of them are at the place where they can come off Byetta. He
asked them if they wanted to try and they said no, they wanted to lose more
weight. He said an interesting thing: That since we don’t know what is going to
happen either now or in the future concerning Byetta, how to handle it is more
an
art than a science. I think he meant we are feeling our way along with
everyone else. You certainly raise an interesting question and I am sure we will
begin to have answers fairly soon. In June Byetta will have been on the market
for
one year.
May 5th, 2004 at 7:19 am
Marsha, another comment to the ongoing discussion. It is my feeling that
those of us who are taking Byetta seem to go though up and downs but the
ultimate
movement seems to be moving forward. I have had times when my appetite
returned and I started to gain weight. Then I would get though that and start to
May 5th, 2004 at 10:00 am
Hi Elaine,
My DH is close enough to the edge of diabetes now that he lost 7 pounds that our
doctor was willing to give him six months to lose another 20 pounds and then
he’d need no more medication - figuring that slighly elevated BGs would not
seriously damage him during that time. Dan declined and took the byetta option
as the healthier alternative. Neither Dan nor I anticipate another 20 pounds
will do it for him, but another 40 will. He does not have raging hunger. He
simply likes to eat as a way of giving himself more sensory input. Blindness is
sort of like being in a sensory deprivation tank at times. The brain seeks
stimulation. He can, however, never go back to his high-carb ways that he
learned in his vegetarian upbringing. Then he would end up in the same shape
again - only worse.
Yes, I anticipate being off the byetta at some point. When I lose enough weight
to reduce my insulin resistance sufficiently (maybe 80 pounds from now) I will
be reducing byetta and then stopping it. I did lose weight before byetta. I
will continue controlling my intake after byetta. There is life after byetta
and metformin. I may simply move back to hoodia until the insulin resistance
and the over production is controlled through weight loss. I have a plan and
while it progresses with fits and starts, I intend to stick with it.
When I talked with the endos at Joslin yea un these two or three years ago they
all told me that if I lost the weight I would be able to control my diabetic
tendencies with diet and exercise. In fact, some diabetics who get GIB’s go off
most, if not all, meds virtually immediately because they are not gorging any
longer (except those who learn how to eat past the stomach reduction) and the
hormones in the gut change.
I will never be able to eat a hundred or more grams of carbs a day. My body
will not tolerate that and I have no life plans to subsist on insulin, byetta,
and oral meds the rest of my life. I didn’t tolerate high-carb well when I was
a hypoglycemic (which may happen again once the weight is down far enough) so I
will always be living on good, healthy, low carb food plan - probably along the
lines of the Atkins maintenance plan. I won’t be scarfing down fra diavolo
(although I’d like to) and I won’t be eating garlic bread or tea with honey in
it. As I mentioned some time back, I have the additional whammy of grain
allergies so that gives me another good reason to avoid the stuff. I will be
able to handle more carbs than I do now (maybe 40 or so a day instead of 20-30)
and I will not be on meds.
The reason diabetes is progressive is because we are killing ourselves with the
high bgs that kill off the beta cells in the pancreas. Reverse the problem with
too much insulin and insulin resistance and you can largely reverse the problem.
Bernstein discusses this in his books on diabetes.
My family doctor also feels that with sufficient weight loss Dan and I will both
be diet and exercise potential diabetics only. The point of the weight loss is
not to be a thin medication dependent type II, it is to be a diet and exercise
controlled potential diabetic or pre-diabetic.
Maybe someone else has information that once a diabetic one is doomed to be one
forever. That is not what I have read or been told by competent physicians.
They all say the same thing: Lose the weight, get off the meds - unless, of
course, the body has already been damaged beyond repair. Mine has not, which is
one of the reasons I am fighting so hard to get the weight off and get back to
normal. If push came to shove I WOULD have weight loss surgery if that were the
only option.
Cheers!
Marsha
May 5th, 2004 at 10:54 pm
We have not had spit on the market long enough to see what happens. If people
in Boston are losing enough weight through GIB surgery to lose enough weight to
not need any medication, I see no reason why people cannot get off other
medictions entirely once they lose enough weight with or without spit. I’ve
never heard any specialist say that a type II is doomed to live on medication
forever as long as they get within 20% of normal weight and stay there.
It does not mean they are cured. They can’t eat crap and they can’t mainline
sugar, but they can live on a restricted carb diet with exercise. If they don’t
want to live on a low-carb diet and exercise then they will need meds.
Marsha
Janie
May 6th, 2004 at 7:01 am
my mom was dx’d just before thanksgiving last year. don’t know what she
weighed but at 5′6" she wore a size 18 or 20. dr tried diet and exercise
first for her and she wound up on glucophage. she has been down to a size 8
since february and still needs the glucophage. my diabetes came from dad’s
side or so we thought!
jodi
We have not had spit on the market long enough to see what happens. If
people in Boston are losing enough weight through GIB surgery to lose enough
weight to not need any medication, I see no reason why people cannot get off
other medictions entirely once they lose enough weight with or without spit.
I’ve never heard any specialist say that a type II is doomed to live on
medication forever as long as they get within 20% of normal weight and stay
there.
It does not mean they are cured. They can’t eat crap and they can’t
mainline sugar, but they can live on a restricted carb diet with exercise.
If they don’t want to live on a low-carb diet and exercise then they will
need meds.
Marsha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
May 6th, 2004 at 11:48 am
Hi John,
We are going to have problems with eating as time goes along because almost all
of us have eaten too much as evidenced by our weight. We’re not going to change
those habits over night and all the overweight members of the list are also
dealing with insulin resistance and will have to deal with hunger.
I have friends who are losing weight with weight watchers and hoodia - one of
them takes it 3 times a day as an under the tongue spray - and she’s losing
without feeling famished or driven to eat all night. Good thing, too, as I’d
hate to see her as a fellow diabetic. I’d like to spare anyone I can of this
disorder.
It is just so cool that you are having fasting BG’s of 90-100! The daily
pattern will go down over time as you lose more weight.
Thanks for sharing your gentle wisdom.
Cheers!
Marsha
May 7th, 2004 at 4:59 am
Jodi,
The next question is - what does your mother eat? For most people diet means
ADA diet - which has a phenomenal number of carbohydrates to it. Being low
weight alone is insufficient. Carb control is critical. Does she eat 100+
carbs a day like the ADA recommends? If so, and she needs medication, she is
eating way more than her body can deal with.
Does she know her C-Peptide? Is it insulin resistance or is it beta cell
failure?
I know from past and present testing that I have enough insulin running around
in my body for any three normal, healthy people. Beta cell failure is not an
issue with me (yet), it is strictly insulin resistance. Diet and exercise are
the treatment for insulin resistance, but will not have the same impact with
someone experiencing beta cell death, although it can help mobilize the use of
insulin by the muscles.
Most diabetics are not strict low-carb folks for a variety of reasons, probably
mostly because people like to eat what they like to eat (comfort foods) or
because they got shanghaied by the low-fat movement; the same low-fat movement
that is largely responsible for the obesity epidemic/diabetes epidemic today
IMO. Hence, few people are going to give up all their comfort foods and walk
the straight and narrow like I do.
I was able to lower my BG about 100 points through diet and exercise alone when
I put my will to it. Assuming I lose the 130+ pounds I need to lose, my insulin
resistance will diminish to the nearly null point. Byetta will protect the beta
cells from burning out during the meantime and perhaps help any damage. At a
certain point my body should be able to start managing things itself. If not,
at that point I can probably use ALA and Rhemannia 16 to better effect and
manage it that way. Certainly, I will always be checking my BG the rest of my
life.
I hope that your Mom is able to overcome this and perhaps you can give her some
eating pointers if she is using the ADA diet.
Cheers!
Marsha
May 8th, 2004 at 11:45 am
Marsha, I believe I had a metabolic problem way before I was diagnosed
with diabetes, probably all of my life. Thirty years ago, my dh and I
went backpacking in the middle of summer. Granted it was at 8000 ft, but
not cold enough to have me go into hypothermia in the middle of the
night! Which I did! I weighed 140 lbs at that time, and that was not
normal. With byetta, I feel so much better and respond more normally to
food, that I’m hesitant to go off it, even when I get down back down to
May 8th, 2004 at 11:30 pm
she went on atkins and lost all the weight. she still eats low carb
strictly. my brother who is 50 and still lives at home has been diabetic for
almost as long as i have. he’s lost both of his feet due to diabetes. she’s
had him on low carb too. don’t know if she knows her c-pep though. she’s
very healthy otherwise and a very young 67. active, energetic etc. i always
wished i was more like her.
jodi
Jodi,
The next question is - what does your mother eat? For most people diet
means ADA diet - which has a phenomenal number of carbohydrates to it.
Being low weight alone is insufficient. Carb control is critical. Does she
eat 100+ carbs a day like the ADA recommends? If so, and she needs
medication, she is eating way more than her body can deal with.
Does she know her C-Peptide? Is it insulin resistance or is it beta cell
failure?
I know from past and present testing that I have enough insulin running
around in my body for any three normal, healthy people. Beta cell failure
is not an issue with me (yet), it is strictly insulin resistance. Diet and
exercise are the treatment for insulin resistance, but will not have the
same impact with someone experiencing beta cell death, although it can help
mobilize the use of insulin by the muscles.
Most diabetics are not strict low-carb folks for a variety of reasons,
probably mostly because people like to eat what they like to eat (comfort
foods) or because they got shanghaied by the low-fat movement; the same
low-fat movement that is largely responsible for the obesity
epidemic/diabetes epidemic today IMO. Hence, few people are going to give
up all their comfort foods and walk the straight and narrow like I do.
I was able to lower my BG about 100 points through diet and exercise alone
when I put my will to it. Assuming I lose the 130+ pounds I need to lose,
my insulin resistance will diminish to the nearly null point. Byetta will
protect the beta cells from burning out during the meantime and perhaps help
any damage. At a certain point my body should be able to start managing
things itself. If not, at that point I can probably use ALA and Rhemannia
16 to better effect and manage it that way. Certainly, I will always be
checking my BG the rest of my life.
I hope that your Mom is able to overcome this and perhaps you can give her
some eating pointers if she is using the ADA diet.
Cheers!
Marsha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
May 10th, 2004 at 6:58 pm
Hi Jodi,
Sounds as if your mother has suffered some loss of beta cell function. It would
be interesting to see what her c-peptide is becasue that will tell a lot.
I’m convinced now, that John Dodson’s information is right on about the vitamin
D3 supplementation at some pretty high doses. We are negotating with the local
doc for 50,000 IU, but will probably supplement on our own as well as he is not
going to fell okay about what John takes.
There is good information out there that 50,000 IU a month (at a minimum) will
help diabetics and help women with osteo issues which is a double reason to take
it. You might want to suggest D3 supplementation of at least 1200 IU a day to
your mom and see if that helps her turn the corner.
Cheers!
Marsha
jodi
Jodi,
The next question is - what does your mother eat? For most people diet
means ADA diet - which has a phenomenal number of carbohydrates to it.
Being low weight alone is insufficient. Carb control is critical. Does she
eat 100+ carbs a day like the ADA recommends? If so, and she needs
medication, she is eating way more than her body can deal with.
Does she know her C-Peptide? Is it insulin resistance or is it beta cell
failure?
I know from past and present testing that I have enough insulin running
around in my body for any three normal, healthy people. Beta cell failure
is not an issue with me (yet), it is strictly insulin resistance. Diet and
exercise are the treatment for insulin resistance, but will not have the
same impact with someone experiencing beta cell death, although it can help
mobilize the use of insulin by the muscles.
Most diabetics are not strict low-carb folks for a variety of reasons,
probably mostly because people like to eat what they like to eat (comfort
foods) or because they got shanghaied by the low-fat movement; the same
low-fat movement that is largely responsible for the obesity
epidemic/diabetes epidemic today IMO. Hence, few people are going to give
up all their comfort foods and walk the straight and narrow like I do.
I was able to lower my BG about 100 points through diet and exercise alone
when I put my will to it. Assuming I lose the 130+ pounds I need to lose,
my insulin resistance will diminish to the nearly null point. Byetta will
protect the beta cells from burning out during the meantime and perhaps help
any damage. At a certain point my body should be able to start managing
things itself. If not, at that point I can probably use ALA and Rhemannia
16 to better effect and manage it that way. Certainly, I will always be
checking my BG the rest of my life.
I hope that your Mom is able to overcome this and perhaps you can give her
some eating pointers if she is using the ADA diet.
Cheers!
Marsha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anything posted in this group is the opinion of the person who posted it.
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May 12th, 2004 at 9:07 am
Thanks Marsha (and everybody who responded) - I guess I’ve bought
into that "death sentence" (so to speak) of diabetes. It never
crossed my mind that if I lost enough weight and controlled my
eating that I might be able to get off the meds entirely. I’ve
already been able to cut my Metformin by half and lost 14 pounds
since Apr 1 so maybe I’m on my way. What a blessing that would be!
Elaine(TN)
May 12th, 2004 at 5:47 pm
just got back from lunch with family including mom. she says she has no clue
what her numbers are other than her bg’s. i will forward this email onto her
though. btw, we went to ruby tuesday’s which i normally love due to the
salad bar. i had water and a bowl of the broc/chs soup (no salad bar). when
the server took our plates, he asked if something was wrong with my soup
cause i only ate like 3 spoonfuls. i told him it was fine that i wasn’t
hungry.
jodi
Hi Jodi,
Sounds as if your mother has suffered some loss of beta cell function. It
would be interesting to see what her c-peptide is becasue that will tell a
lot.
I’m convinced now, that John Dodson’s information is right on about the
vitamin D3 supplementation at some pretty high doses. We are negotating
with the local doc for 50,000 IU, but will probably supplement on our own as
well as he is not going to fell okay about what John takes.
There is good information out there that 50,000 IU a month (at a minimum)
will help diabetics and help women with osteo issues which is a double
reason to take it. You might want to suggest D3 supplementation of at least
1200 IU a day to your mom and see if that helps her turn the corner.
Cheers!
Marsha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
May 13th, 2004 at 5:22 pm
Thanks for the e-mail and for the information about your Dr’s and their
decision to allow more people to be on Byetta. I am still in
McKinleyville and can’t fully reply. I have saved your other e-mail and
will say more when I am home. John
Hi John,
We are going to have problems with eating as time goes along because
almost all
of us have eaten too much as evidenced by our weight. We’re not going
to change
those habits over night and all the overweight members of the list are
also
dealing with insulin resistance and will have to deal with hunger.
I have friends who are losing weight with weight watchers and hoodia -
one of
them takes it 3 times a day as an under the tongue spray - and she’s
losing
without feeling famished or driven to eat all night. Good thing, too,
as I’d
hate to see her as a fellow diabetic. I’d like to spare anyone I can
of this
disorder.
It is just so cool that you are having fasting BG’s of 90-100! The
daily
pattern will go down over time as you lose more weight.
May 23rd, 2004 at 7:25 am
"There is good information out there that 50,000 IU a month (at a minimum)
will
help diabetics and help women with osteo issues which is a double reason to
take it. You might want to suggest D3 supplementation of at least 1200 IU
a
day to your mom and see if that helps her turn the corner."
Could you please point to web sources of this information.
XB
IC|XC